The Genesis of Beef: Nas vs Jay-Z

Dope, dope piece, fellas. Wasn’t even expecting a link at the end. I honestly didn’t follow the beef that hard, so I didn’t know it went back that far. Like most cats out west (I hope), I thought Takeover was outta left field. What’s crazy is I’ve heard all those cuts before Takeover and never thought to put it together. Definitely a clash of titans, though.

Thanks a lot for the piece.

The wife & I have debated this ad naseum with her taking Nas’ side and me on the other we Jay. Thomas, this was a great write-up HOWEVER, you did us all a disservice by not capturing arguably the most important lines from the “Blue Print 2”

“…but won’t break you crumb, off the little bit that he makes/And this is with whom you want to place your faith/I put dollars on mine – ask Columbine/When the Twin Towers dropped, I was the first in line/Donating proceeds from every ticket sold/When I was out on the road, that’s how you judge Hov – NO?!?!/Ain’t I supposed to be absorbed N myself/But er’ time there’s a tragedy, I’m the first one to help/They call me this misogynist, but they don’t call me the dude/To take his dollars & give gifts at the projects/These dudes is all politics, depositing checks/They put in their pocket, & all you get in return is a lot of lip/And ya’ll buy the shit – caught up in the hype!

This portion of stanza speaks more appropriately to your interpretation BUT this is just nitpicking a great article in hindsight!

Kev – this is an excellent example of that “lyrics” idea that I told you about a couple of weeks ago.

Thomas, you get MAJOR props for this article. I was reading word for word, and you didnt skip a beat on this one. I even have those Clue tapes, especially The Great Ones Part 2. I loved the Nas line “this is why you cant kill me_____ im already dead”.

but yea. you should continue these “Genesis of Beef” series. Roc-A-Fella vs… damn! WHO DIDNT THEY GO UP AGAINST?! LOL.

It’s a good thing that I got these mixtapes. LOL.

you gotta remember sh*t for how it was at the time. jay was never considered the best rapper until later in his career, he always aligned himself with the hottest rapper of the time, first big, then dmx. the time of line ‘biggie, jay-z or nas” people weren’t even thinking of jay in those terms. people are stupid and if u say your the best enough times they will buy into it. nas isnt the type to come out with that kinda talk. u see what happened after the black album, talking legacies, nas won.

Wow Thomas my man, this whole post is dope. Can’t even imagine how long this might have taken you… nearly jumped out of my seat when I saw you compiled all the tracks at the end.

Great read, Thanks

This is just dope. A good read & the download was unexpected lol. I was just thinkin’, “I should listen to these songs” & BAM! Good look on this.

best shit i’ve ever seen. excellent post.

glookin, I’m feeling old.

cheers/yo

should of been included in Youre the man section “yesterday you begged for a deal today you tough guys?”

super dope tho

This is a great write up. I would have added “Is That Yo Bitch” and the ORIGINAL version of “Don’t You Know”. That version got played on Hot 97 ONCE before “Supa Ugly” hit.

Major props for the link too.

Good Post…props due.

nice post. try to squeeze a couple of more joint…

Queen Bitch PT 2 Remix
Before taking the Summer Jam stage, Jay made a pre-roast appearance on the remix to the sequel of the Lil Kim song, Queen Bitch, “Three niggas got it coming, say May-June / Sixth album drops, cocksuckers stay tuned.”

Airport Story
As later told by Jungle, Nas’ brother, the day after the Summer Jam incident, with Mobb Deep heading towards the grave and Nas grazed by the warning shot, Jungle ran into a basking Jay-Z: “the first thing I said [to Jay-Z] was, ‘yo, you know we going at you.’ . . . Then he stuck his hand out, gave me a five, he was like, ‘yo, I spoke to your man, I spoke to duke’, he told that LA story . . . So I was like, ‘alright, cool, we gonna do it for the fans.’ And I left it like that, but I told him it was war.”

The General
Prior to any definitive response, Nas next spoke generally about the art of the battle on The General. A remix came out a year later on a Swizz Beat compilation, but the OG version carries the stench of the ’01 trenches undeniably, “I’m coming for y’all blood, make room for the king.” However, except for one reference to the Stillmatic Freestyle fallout (“Got ya label all scared / Calling up the radio, don’t want my records to air”), Nas primarily focused on laying out the designs of his would-be attack, his pre-Ether state of mind, “I’m much more smarter, much more strategic . . . Too eager you lose / patience, plan your attack then you move.” While there were great numbers who thought Nas couldn’t come back at all, those maintaining faith must have been pressuring him to return fire immediately. Nevertheless, as laid out on The General, Nas wouldn’t be rushed. Days went by without an official response. Weeks. Jay-Z reigned, the world waited. Months. Then, one December 4th, something happened. That Ether, that stuff that make your soul burn slow.

This and more is all at http://escobartheory.blogspot.com

Oh, and off topic, I think that B.I.G.’s “Long Kiss Goodnight” should have been included on Deez’s top ten diss list.

Thanks, but I screwed up a bit. B.I.G. wasn’t rocking a crown on the cover, I superimposed two covers in my mind… However, Nas came at him after that issue dropped.

correction…..
You know exactly who these streets belong to
B.I.G. done warned you, and I’ma run up on you, nigga
-That was the correct line that memphis bleek shot @ nas at the end of his second verse on “My Mind Right”
also that same yr on hot 97 beanie sigel and the whole roc shut funk flex wit some freestyles and beans over the quiet storm beat said something like….”braveheart kids use rats and mumble” he put that shit on the airwaves, the roc was a tight unit @ that point, go against bleek, u goin @ beans

FORGOT ONE:

Memphis Bleek f. Jay-Z & Missy Elliot – Is That Yo Bitch [remix]

I have to disagree with you, Imaginary Players is definitely going at Nas. The single that Nas dropped for 99 cents was “If I Ruled the World”, not “Street Drams”. If Jay was not going at him, Nas definitely thought that he was; he mentions this in several interviews.

1st time here but Homie-That was excellent.
\Good Work Homie
Act Up!!
Justice league ’09

Wow…great article and then a download at the end? Post of the year Thomas!!! haha

>> @Cannon – Don’t You Know is on the list at the bottom. I thought the song was general with nothing speicific about Nas. The song came out in 01 (I think), but was released on the Paid in Full soundtrack in 02.

he’s talking about the original version of the song that actually references Gnoz by name

I agree with Thomas in respect to Jay-Z getting at Mase, not Nas, on Ride or Die.

MaG,
Jay-Z and Mase weren’t beefing when Vol 1 dropped, they started shortly after when Mase offhandedly dissed Jay while they were on tour. He (Mase) had just gone platinum (w/i one month) and while on stage made a comment about everyone on the tour being platinum, then said something like, “Oh wait, somebody here’s not platinum.” Because Jay had just dropped Vol. 1 and it was not platinum at the time of the tour.

the funny thing about jay and nas is that they still going at each other….on the same songs at that!!!!

Glad someone finally saw that come and get me…when the beat flips, it gets no better

the only quote missing was memphis bleek refrencing the kick in the door B.I.G. diss to Nas on mind right remix, where Bleek says you know exactly who these streets belong to, BIG done warned you, and Im a run up on you.

Another possible entry in the ‘bonus/extended crew’ listing (however negligible/unimportant) would be Nashawn’s ‘Write Your Name’…still love when that track comes up in the shuffle: http://www.amazon.com/Napalm-Nashawn/dp/B000F7CM36

Cock-a-fella records would luv this, lol…seriously this is the best read ever and the bonus is the tracks supplied at the end to proof the point…This was sum very tight work indeed.

“people talkin”?

Excellent piece. Talking about subliminal shots, there is also this detail that always sound suspect to me, it’s the tracks order in “Hip-Hop is Dead” : you got “Hip-hop is dead / Who killed it ? / Black Republican”. I don’t know if I’m trippin’, but I can’t believe it wasn’t made on purpose by Nas.

“Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?” ooppps sorry. Everyone talkin about “Is that your chick” should probably listen to “Come and get me” first. Let me tell you a secret *whispering* its the same song!

thomas and 215…good points on that one…and good look on da people talking joint…(I see right thru u judas!!)

you missd a key part of the beef

nas’ stillmatic freestyle was in response to jay’s summer jam performance of takeover which he ended with “ask nas, you don’t want it with hov!” *without* doing the infamous third verse. this was the first point in the exchange of words between nas and jay when a name was actually used.

you also miss the numerous subliminals jay sent to nas via comments on jay’s relationship with carmen. according to carmen (the mother of nas’ child, destiny), numerous jay verses in the late 90s referenced their relationship, all of which undoubtedly had to irritate nas, one would imagine (at least the references he was able to discern).

“I bruise wack rap niggaz severely punish them/Especially those that get fucked for they publishing, heh/Always gotta be the weakest nigga out the crew/I probably make more money off yo’ album, than you/You see the respect I get everytime I come through/Check your own videos, you’ll always be number two/Niggaz talkin real greasy on them R&B records” (Ride or Die)

^^^^^^^^
This to me was at Mase not Nas. If you remember Puff was always in Bad Boy video’s…remember when they had the shirts on with #1 and #2 on…..you know Puff didn’t have #2 on. Plus, Jay wouldn’t have ghostwritten for Nas during that time, but he could have for Mase back then.

^^^ co-sign EXCEPT for the part about jay writing for mase. i think what jay was referring to was that because of ma$e’s deal with puff, jay probably made more in publishing off his guest appearance on ma$e’s first album than ma$e did off of his own album. the reference to “being the weakest in your crew” seems to be a reference to mase’s old crew children of the corn, which included big l, cam’ron and mcgruff. whether mase was the weakest or not is debatable, but some people thought so at the time.

“Nas is like” also has a subliminal in it, just hit me

hey can you re-up the link please? this was a great
piece.

get that link back up!

can this link be re-upped?

U ALSO FORGOT JAY FREESTYLE ON GREATONES PT 1..GOES AT NAS ON THAT TOO..

@bolu

“a very bad theory of the beef”

^^^
Expand your comment. What’s your “theory?”

Good Stuff.

I didn’t really pay attention to the beef when it was going on but the more I find out the deeper it seems to get. Really the whole Stillmatic album was addressing the beef with jay. Star Wars was another one that give a little more about what was going on thought not really a beef song…

Overall I think Nas won that beef. Lyrically super ugly vs ether it was no question ether took the cake. Before then I never heard a song pack so much in. And I think jay would agree too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffDDbEJAEIg

I think jay got off pretty easy with this beef because he was hotter at the time and Nas fell under the radar. To me super ugly was pretty vulgar and low. Plus it was overrated since nas wasn’t with her at the time and if you think about it stuff like that happens all the time. I find it ironic that jay calls ether vulgar. Don’t know if you guys saw this on but pay attention to jay in the interview. They guy asked him about if anyone said anything that made you say ‘wow’ and he’s already thinking aobut ether.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsHJdahVr9M

I like how in part three nas say ‘then i dropped a bomb’. They both started laughing and nas puts his arm around jay like he’s saying ‘you already kno’ lol. The look on jays face is priceless. So nas won the beef but going over to jay’s label was a pretty big blow. I know what they both said about partnering or showing the world they squashed the beef but I think when it gets this serious it not somethin that ever goes away. MAYBE do a album but don’t sign on his label. You never can give any impression that the other guy won. Jay even used that in one of his recent songs saying “I put Nas on def jam”. That like spittin in your face… I remember reading a XXL magazine interview with nas where he basically says fuck it, it really doesn’t matter anymore just get your paper so maybe it starts to make more sense….

Overall between nas and jay there’s really no question that nas is the better artist. I think a lot of people get caught up in who was more popular, or who sold or came out with more albums, but to me the lyrics don’t lie, and nas has been probably the best overall rapper since tupac, maybe a little better. I think big gets tossed in a lot because of the east west beef but nobody can match these two when it come to depth. Nas suffers from not having a release that lived up to illmatic but song for song he’s one of the best and illmatic only happens once in a lifetime. Some more food for thought….

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/column/107713-it-aint-hard-to-tell-the-legacy-of-illmatic/?referrer=google

Don’t know if you guys saw this on but jay talks about

The perception is that Nas won. I obviously don’t agree with that, but I definitely don’t agree with this>. “deeper street poetic dude.” Jay has lyrics that have so much coded and multiple meanings. Take BP3 for example. Many people thought the lyrics and beats were subpar. Beanie Sigel didn’t think so as he said “Jay handed out a lot of shoes” for people to wear including him.

The perception is Nas won because he had the “last” song to come out. Can’t compare “Super Ugly” to “Ether.” “Takeover” birth “Ether” just as the “Stillmatic freestyle” birth “Takeover”. Jay’s song’s were rooted in fact and Nas was just name calling.

Either way….both are my two of my favorite artist.

@Thomas – goddamn, either stop ease-dropping in my house or stop channeling my wife’s arguments; which according to most scientific principles these multiple assertions now make it a theory. I agree that Superbad was vulgar but I disagree about the rationale behind why it was made.

Jay is a disciple of “The 48 Laws of Power” (yeah, 50 only got down after Kanye said that Jay got everybody @Roccafella on it) and he plays chess and this was a classic “Fool’s Gambit” strategy w/SuperBad as the opening of his 2-move checkmate…with BP2 as check. This line of attack is used when you know your opponent is weaker than you and a lesson in knowing your place is required. More importantly, the master of the double entendre (Nas was the pretty boy and Jay was…”Super Ugly” as Joe Camel) was also backhanding the so-called “hip-hop” fans as well because they were being hypocrites. Jay & I have some years on Nas and in hip-hop that’s significant because its like dog years and it provides him a different perspective.

First, here’s what people fail to realize about a battle from a historical perspective: we’re doing this or we’re going to fight – period. Nothing was or should be off limits because either my name/dance style/etc. is on the line. Tupac understood this very well, which is why NYers appreciated and loved “Hit ‘em Up” because nobody had gone there like that in so long, it’s like MCs forgot how to battle. Case in point; the Kool Moe Dee on wax was 180 degrees different from his persona in a battle (somewhere on this site is a mixtape from Evil Dee with a couple of his live freestyles on it) or how Tim Dawg always went at NWA. With Super Ugly, Jay was telling the world that not only could he get you in the gutter lyrically put he could do it literally & figuratively:

“Here, nigga, the gloves is off
The love is done
Its whatever, whenever, however nigga, ONE!
And since you infatuated with sayin that gay shit
Guess you was kissin my dick when you was kissin that bitch”

(Black Pawn E5 to Ether/ White Pawn’s F3)

As a hip-hop fan, Jay is one of my all-time favorites, but as a sports fan and former baseball player the master of the DE did it again in ’03 with the release of BP2 & the 40/40 Club. In baseball, the 40/40 club is the most exclusive of all baseball records (actually in sports too) and its premier member is Barry Bonds. If you’re a Yankee fan or any American League team fan did you really have any reason during the ‘90s or ‘00s to hate Barry? Nothing he did impacted us or our teams, but people hated him because the media said so, because he’s not nice & won’t talk to us. Barry treated his teammates just as badly as Jordan, the only difference is MJ made nice w/the reporters because “republicans buy shoes too.” Barry was the bad guy and McGuire was the savior of baseball – bullshit…and ya’ll caught up in the hype:

“I fuck a bitch face more than her waist for real
and ain’t no pussy like new pussy that’s how a nigga feel
bust three times throw her the peace sign
she sleep then my dick sleep and I aint gotta’ call her for weeks
Long legged hoes, mo’head hoes, married bitches
Me and my dog – fuckin them both they got us switchin’
Is the nigga gangsta? Yeah, that’s how I’m livin’
That’s how I’m playin’ – I got these freak fuckin’ hoes singin’”
– Nas

“I set the trap just to see dude react” – Jay
Check & mate; but like Barry…

“Since I will not lose, they try to help him cheat
But I will not lose, for even in defeat
There’s a valuable lesson learned, so it evens it up for me” – Jay

And to you hypocrites: (one of my favorite 12 bars EVER)

“Can’t y’all, see that he’s fake, the rap version of TD Jakes
Prophesying on your CDs and tapes but
Won’t break you a crumb of the little bit that he makes
And this is with whom you want to place your faith?
I put dollars on mine, ask Columbine
When the Twin Towers dropped, I was the first in line
Donating proceeds off every ticket sold
When I was out on the road, that’s how you judge Hov – no?
Ain’t I supposed to be absorbed in myself?
Every time there’s a tragedy, I’m the first one to help
They call me this misogynist, but they don’t call me the dude
To take his dollars to give gifts at the projects”

Following are some of the Laws utilized by Jay…(in no particular order relating to their battles)

• Law 44: Disarm and Infuriate with the Mirror Effect
• Law 33: Discover Each Man’s Thumbscrew
• Law 28: Enter Action with Boldness
• Law 29: Plan All the Way to the End
• Law 42: Strike the Shepherd and the Sheep will Scatter
• Law 48: Assume Formlessness

@215…lol – this was an intellectual exercise in the analysis of variance with multifactors based upon Thomas’ comments. While you may disagree with how “deep” Jay-Z maybe, what you can’t do is disregard the depth & breath or scope of his work which in and of itself contradicts your perception of him. Furthermore, like Barry Bonds, if anyone could do it then his accomplishments wouldn’t be as vast nor allow him to even sit at the same table as Nas, let alone battle him.

Everybody was doing steroids, but nobody stood head & shoulders above them with the person in 2nd so far back it didn’t matter…welcome to the 40/40 club!

@Jigsaw hahaha. Damn Jig you stay goin deeper than the soil in the ground. Def love seein what you have to say. Products almost done cookin lol

@Thomas, on point but let me add a 3rd reason…aesthetics. Image is everything and if I heard my sister-in-law say it once, she must have said it a million times
Her: “I don’t like Jay-Z, he is not attractive!”
Me & wifey: but what does that have to do w/the song
Her: Pffhh – ya’ll all into the lyrics & stuff. I ain’t into that, I just wanna hear the music
Us: but what does his looks have to do w/his music
Her: whatever, the nigga ugly & he think he all that. That’s why I like Nas out of all those NY rappers.
ROTFLMAO as god is my witness. The baby line didn’t help but all is fair in war and Nas knew the rules. At the end of the day though, it’s the abstracts that tend to have more value. I’ll be curious as to your interpretation of this battle through the lens of the 48 Laws of Power.

@AnMor…good shit but the only thing we want to know is when will it be done and how can I get some.

Do Not…Do Not…Do Not…..forget that these are you’re own interpretations and that’s the power of music. Jay Z and Nas are the only ones that know exactly what they say.

Anyone got this mixtape?? Plz I nned this mixtape lol donalvarez85@gmail.com, thx

Amazing article & great comments. But theres some songs ur still missing.

Jay-Z- Hard Knock Life (Ghetto Anthem)

gave you prophecy on my first joint, and y’all lamed out
Didn’t really appreciate it, til the second one came out
So I stretched the game out, X’ed your name out
Put Jigga on top, and drop albums non-stop for ya, nigguh!

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hes talking about about sampling him on Dead Presidents & then on “IN My Lifetime”, rap game/crack game.

Nas- DJ Whoo Kid Freestyle (Over Dr.dre Light Speed)

Platinum pearl crown me, who the king can’t be you
I’m stamp on you lamp with the crew
Bent on you, Esco mates wipe the length right off you
Pimp you lost it, talk money spit fortunes
Talk murder I lay your dogs in the coffin (dogs in the coffin)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jay-Z talking about being the king & Nas felt otherwise.

Jay-Z- The Watcher Pt. 2

I blew breath for you midgets, I gave life to the game
It’s only right I got the right to be king

^^^^^^^^^^^
Jay-Z is refering too Nas’s line on Hate me Know
Nas said
“I was destined to come
predicted blame God
He blew breath in my lungs
second to none”

Jay-Z also spit this verse as a freestyle over Roc the Mic beat.

Jay-Z- Hot 97′ Freestyle (Before Blueprint 2)

Verse 2
I stayed in touch I heard you back home complaining yall complain too much so hateful bunch of dudes I put on out there acting so ungrateful

Verse 3
whie yall was running your mouth complaining about summer jam
I was in flip flop in the south of France see how it flip flops for the number 1 station for hip hop & R&B you thought summer jam was staring you it was staring me even in my absence my presence is felt that got to tell you im the king if nothing else im on another continent you still aint content im in the Mediterranean you still aint bent explain to me why I wanna be you again you on the radio crying im learning to swim

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nas was complaining about Hot 97′ on Power 105 that they didn’t want him insulting Jay-Z at Summer Jam.

Jay-Z- Public Service Announcment Remix

thats why real niggas respect me fake niggas want beef
cause they know thats the only way we gonna speak
we never gonna see eye to eye
your type of real I dont recognize its all televised
mobstas I ta not get in beef its no business in it it only brings police
wankstas want beef and they name in the street
most time end up with there brain where there feet should go
you should know if you gonna do something and you go to radio we all know you fronting so I go to radio to let them know you fronting keep it real you don’t want nothing
they shooting nobody dying somebody better put somebody body on somebody iron sometime soon if somebody lying I aint buying that shit you shoveling
I aint ducking for nothing cousin im too tall to act small
plus you know ive seen it all before

Jay-Z also spit this verse on the Rap City Freestyle over Ludacris’s Stand Up.

You could also say Nas’s verse on the pledge was a jab to Jay-Z
The Pledge Remix
My enemies want sorta the same respect I was born with
Godson, tatted on my chest it’s permanent
The rap Albert Anastasia; you cowards
Y’all want the crown from the black power man of Asia
Snap out your dreams and prayers of takin a king’s paper
Ask another rapper how it feels to lose his whole gangsta
(How it feel?) Youse a no namesta – ya little mans is no threat
You make me upset I might stank ya (blastin)

Remember on the R.Kelly Best of both worlds intro intro when Jay said “We mastered this/Don’t you know I eat “Ether” & breathe acid/weak BASTARDS!”

That should’ve been included on this list. I guess it was overlooked becuz it was on an album nobody but females ever listened to.

Damn this was a great read i remember this beef like it was yesterday shout out to the god son for murdering jay

Nice write up! you forgot these lines from Jay Z on “ballin (we fly high” Jim Jones diss

The Jones’ can’t keep up..
Maybe my nicca Nas…
But I got stronger after Ether…

no one got this link anymore??