If you’ve been a reader of the site for some time, you may remember a controversial article posted a little over a year ago called All Samples Are NOT Cleared. A year later, that article is still one of the most talked about posts on this site. To fill in those that are in the dark, we posted a sample set to Madvillain’s Madvillainy (great set btw). Not even days after the set was posted, I get a MySpace message from Quasimoto asking that the set be removed, saying that these sets are not good for hip-hop. This is where the fun began. To this day I don’t know what was more controversial, the fact that someone at Stones Throw asked that the set be taken down, or the fact that I complied.
Anyway, everything is documented in last year’s article & comments. Fast forward a year later, Guy over at hhhead.com gets wind of the whole deal and decides to contact Madlib himself to get his take. Granted it is a year later, but the controversy is still fresh in Madlib’s head. He offer’s up his thoughts on the whole debate, but the main thing that gets me is that he says that no one at Stones Throw ever reached out to me… FALSE. After reading Madlib’s rebuttal, I offered my final thoughts to Guy on the whole situtation.
Without getting into to much detail, head on over to HHHead.com to read Madlib’s response and my rebuttal and check out Ivan’s response at Hip-Hop Is Read.
To conclude this little rant, this whole fiasco was the beginning of why there are certain samples that will not be compiled here on the site. And for those wondering who all is on the list, these are the artists that we will not be compiling sample sets for (so don’t bother requesting). If you are an artist/producer and wish to be included, just ask!
- Madlib
- Jake One
- Black Milk
- Statik Selektah
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{ 30 comments… read them below or add one }
Please include DMV producer Oddisee as one of the cats you don’t compile sets for!
yo kev i read everything. this is some pretty interesting stuff. i wonder if madlib contacted wikipedia asking them to take the samples creds down too… if not, i don’t understand why he cares about the sample sets. keep us updated on this whole thing, and any sample clearing news you hear about because it’s really interesting.
peace man,
psy
i have madlibs set i was on it before it was pulled!!
What’s funny is you can go on Wikipedia and see the samples that were used for Madvillainy.
Yeah, Wikipedia was actually our main source of info for this sample set. I have seen it get removed and re added there so many times, it ain’t funny. Good luck tracking down all of the physical tracks… it took me forever.
You actually use wikipedia as a source? Yikes. Did not know that. I mean yeah I did contribute to that Madvillainy article (one of the cartoon excerpts, still can’t believe they used that one, good that thing took me back) but like, wikipedia is way subjective/user-generated to be used as an accurate source. Just for the hell of it, I could go on there right now and say that Madlib sampled, oh I don’t know, “Spaced Cowboy” by Sly & the Family Stone and people would take it as fact, regardless of whether or not they actually did. I don’t know, too “iffy” for me.
I personally wouldnt care if some one found my samples but then again nobodys gonna sue me cause that isnt how i keep the lights on so I can see their point of view and I applaud your being generous to take down sets for people who dont want thiers posted cause you reallly dont have to do so. I hope these artist atleast show thier gratitude to you and the blog readers who actually care about thier music enough to dig a lil deeper.
The same people that visit these sample sets websites, listens to the artist music.
I mean, i don’t need a website to tell me that madlib used “suffer” from curtis mayfield on beat konducta. I Can listen to it and say “hey, that’s the mayfield’s song”. Another thing: You can never stop the information. There will be always sample credits on google, youtube, wikipedia… It’s just stupid try to erase all the info.
In My Honest Opinion websites like kevin nottingham are not hurting hip-hop. They are helping, not only hip-hop, but MUSIC! the original artists gets free promotion with only one song (NOT A WHOLE DAMN ALBUM). If one simple song it’s illegal, then talk about all these songs that leak everyday on the internet. It was because of kanye’s samples set or 9th wonder samples sets that i knew 90% of the soul/funk artists that i know now. And if i really like the artist music, i will buy their cds, like i did with some. Labels and artists should start to think about this… Labels (from the original artists) should help websites that put sample sets, by sending them the samples and links to where you can buy the whole cd. I Think they would get more money doing this than just sueing the hip-hop producers…
wiki, google, cd inserts, your ear, and thebreaks are sources we use. thebreaks is probably the most reliable, but they are wrong sometimes. For the most part we check the samples before we post them. Ivan wrote a great post about this issue http://hiphopisread.blogspot.com/2009/04/two-can-win.html and how sets should be complied
http://hiphopisread.blogspot.com/2009/03/sample-sets-frequently-asked-question-2.html
. .Black Milk sample setts would bang . . ive already stated what i had to say about Madlib’s sample sett. . may i request Dj Hi Tek ? . .
Kev… Dope pieces, both of them, first of all… Sample sets help up-and-coming producers, such as my self by showing us what the “made men” use, possibly puttin us on to a new sound…. Madlib is bein just plain ridiculous about this…I can see if niggas was pullin some ol’ covert-ass, James Bond shit wit hidden cameras exposing him gettin straight SONNED on FL Studio 8 by Myley Cyrus or some dumb shit… Come on, Madlib, most niggas get sample sets to hear where the producer got their inspiration, or to see if another part of the song can be used.. Hell, I get em to learn about different music artists… I collect 10cc vinyl because of a Dilla sample set… Any little bit helps, whether its information on artists or direct and indirect influences…
I’m out this bitch…
320
*blastin MF Doom’s “Hoe Cakes”
Ayo,Kev… Dope pieces, both of them, first of all… Sample sets help up-and-coming producers, such as my self by showing us what the “made men” use, possibly puttin us on to a new sound…. Madlib is bein just plain ridiculous about this…I can see if niggas was pullin some ol’ covert-ass, James Bond shit wit hidden cameras exposing him gettin straight SONNED on FL Studio 8 by Myley Cyrus or some dumb shit… Come on, Madlib, most niggas get sample sets to hear where the producer got their inspiration, or to see if another part of the song can be used.. Hell, I get em to learn about different music artists… I collect 10cc vinyl because of a Dilla sample set… Any little bit helps, whether its information on artists or direct and indirect influences…
I’m out this bitch…
320
*blastin MF Doom’s “Hoe Cakes”
would you be upset if a magician didn’t show you how he performed that trick that you love?
would you still love T.R.O.Y. or Stakes Is High if you didn’t know what sample it was or would it still be dope hip hop?
This is completely hippocratic.
I don’t think these clowns deserve our respect when they Jacked the shit to sample in the first place…
All these producers gotta grow up and realize that they gotta get on their job and find more samples. What if we do use the samples to make beats, maybe we make them better. Why dont they do it better too? Fragile ego’s and low self esteem liter the rap game.
To think they have the power to pressure us, fuck, we are the reason they are so coincided in the first place. I wont cater to 4 producers who are about .0001 statistically of the music world, sorry you aint GOD.
I wanted to add something… The artists who get upset and start whining like a bitch wit a skinned knee act like since THEY came across a dope sample that THEY are the only ones that can use it… If that was the case, when the originators of this art would have ended it when they first sample James Brown… Its all about teachin… Timbaland didn’t go at Hi-Tek’s head when Tek sampled the “I Can’t Stand The Rain” joint for the Reflection Eternal album, did he?
“I don’t think these clowns deserve our respect when they Jacked the shit to sample in the first place…”
I’ve ALWAYS thought this.
But all the same, EOM has a valid point with the magician analogy. A magician ain’t shit when people learn the process behind the trick.
At the end of it though, IMO it’s a matter of give credit where credit’s due.
Wow, this is muy interesante! Good read and interesting viewpoints from both sides.
As as producer who has been diggin in the crates for many years I am thankful when I find these sample sets on Kev’s site. Not only because I am a kid who used to buy an album, then take the liner notes to my nearest record store to try and find ALL the samples they used, but because being a fan of Hip Hop learning where all these samples come from has opened my world to soooo many different kinds of incredible music. I consider myself a student of music and because of Hip Hop and sampling I am sooo much more versed on all types of music. Be it Rock, Jazz, Classical, etc.
The one thing I will say about beat diggin’ is that it’s a damn shame we don’t have any real brick and mortar record stores to even go to anymore! Especially here in Florida! So without the web we’d have no where to DIG for anything we are craving. We are stuck on the web.
So keep the sample sets comin’ and long live sample based Hip Hop!
black milk :’(
I would love to throw my 2 cents in on this topic, but it’ll be lengthy and be over looked. Frankly, I think producers have every right to be upset about it, but they can’t expect people to actually comply to particular things like this. Fact is, we are providing another way to appreciate the music. I know, personally, I appreciate the final product a lot more than after I’ve heard the sample flipped. Not only that, the spreading of good music is infinite, +1 for any listeners who got to know a new track.
Personally, a whole philosophical argument could be made on this (using Logic)…but I suck at logic
lol man.. I would love to interview Premier and get his thoughts on this
I been on this since yesterday and I feel where people are coming from. Producers trynna be stingy/not getting clearences, and Producers mad cuz people on the net “puttin them out there”.
My thoughts as a Producer in the Music Biz: I wouldn’t want the competition to know what the f*ck I got in the stash neither. Sh*t Hip Hop’s got enough haters and biters, we don’t need no fuel to the fire. Plus If I’m dropping a mixtape, and I don’t wanna clear the samples cuz the return is questionable, then I shouldn’t have to worry about “source leakage”. (Props to the industry for establishing such a warm and loving atmosphere to create in! Sarcasm.)
My thoughts as an Artist: 1. Hip Hop is alive and well; DJing is HUGE (its made it from turntables to a plug-in on ProTools for God sake!), Graffiti is being accepted by the masses (Christian Audigier, Ed Hardy…yea its on your clothes) Breaking is…different (the southern dance movement), MCing (Highly Debatable, but alive), the Knowledge…Obama. That’s all I got to say.
2. Kevin and his fam. do this for the love, like all of us started out doing at least, but this is a history lesson; about WAX. We get taught or inspired in some way or another, so basically…even if you don’t like it, we gon find a way to do it. Peace
Well said, my man.
first of all i dont know why you even put a sample set on the internet and you wanna cry about how theres no more “real hip hop” out there. Sample sets do hurt hip hop because it drives producers away from sampling. Its tough enough to clear em in the first place so just exposing producers on a blog doesnt help in any way.
Sampling is an artform, the best producers pick the best samples that work for them period. they have to dig em up and then try to conceal them. Why the fuck dont you try to track them down the real way rather than just looking on wiki. Producers dont just expect samples to be handed to them so neither should you. Dont make madlib have to pay extra money for stuff that already cost him and his label enough as it is.
I saw some one say something along the lines of madlib not owning the songs so he has no right to ask them to be taken down. that is wrong on so many levels. one being that you dont own the songs your self so why are you posting them? Another thing is that the original artist probably doesnt want their music illegally downloaded because they didnt want their shit sampled in the first place.
Finally, I dont know about you but i thought madvillainy was dope as fuck. If you continue to snitch on producers (cuz thats basically what your doing) then we will not see sample based hip hop in the future. Sampling will become too expensive therefore artists will stay away from samples. I know you may not think your hurting producers like madlib, but your certainly not helping him and thats for sure
I put my 2 cents in,the first time this subject came up and now i’m gonna throw 3 more cents in there to make a whole nickel.I’ve done tracks both ways and one time I did a track with a sample that I did’nt even know was used.But guess what,It had a different flare than the other track.My thing is, if u can produce and make hot tracks,u should’nt give a fuck who else flip that sample-THEY ARE NOT U! I dont think for a second that sample sets are bringing down hip hop.For some of u newer heads,back in the day,u couldnt open up an insert from an album and not see the original source of a sample.That used to be one of the reasons why I looked at the credits.For that and to see who produced the track.My opinion about not wanting a sample to be exposed is that u didnt get the sample cleared and u financially benefited from it and dont wanna pay for the rights to use it or u feel that inferior that u think someone is gonna outshine u with the same sample.But hip hop is all about elevation.Without that,hip hop would’nt have lasted this long.I u were the first to use that sample,take pride in that and keep it moving.U are gonna go down in the history books for doing that anyway.Unless u are the one that originally made the song,u are renting the rights to use that sample yourself.If u didnt buy the all out rights to that song,youre like everybody else that’s in the masses that want the 411 about the song.Hope I didnt step on too many toes with this but it is what it is
One!
good look on hooking me up with them shits.
and i still haven’t found the sample for “Rhinestone Cowboy”
but soon as i do, you’re the first person i’m forwarding it to.
and by the way, add flip illson to the list lmao (really tho)
—a dying metaphor—
Damn, Grimes went off!
I would have to say it’s not cool to reveal an artist’s sample list, unless they have revealed it themselves. For the fact of, that art was not created by you. There’s serious repercussions from this, never ending lawsuits. I understand why these lists come out, people are just interested in the music that leads back to the sample source. I just think people may not see the bigger picture in this situation. For some reason, there seems to be this need for people to know everything about a project. It’s bad enough that people don’t even pay for the music anymore, then you have these sample lists that take away the secrecy of the music. The situation appears to be now, how much can the consumer take from the artist without giving back? If people are not going to pay for the music, at least leave the sample list alone. Go digging, and keep the secret to yourself.
c’mon people! it’s about lawyers, not about keepin’ samples secret!
indie labels don’t have the budget to fight in court mad people that ask millions for a snippet!
many artists of the ‘60 or ‘70 would be unknown if some rap artists wouldn’t have used some track of theirs…
but most of them still bitch about it.. they would have to thank rap artists istead of complaining.. maybe people who’s sleepin’ on a bench will be touring again..
the great jeremy steig once honestly stated that he made more money off the “sure shot” sample than trough his whole career..
posting the actual tracks instead of listing them on breaks or wikipedia simply make it easier for dickheads like company mafiosos and greasy lawyers who don’t know what music or a computer is.
“who’s your an A&R? a mountain climber who plays electric guitar???but he don’t know the meaning of dope…”
but that’s my humble opinion.
is there a way i could get a copy of the madvilliany samples set? does anyone here have a copy? i’m willing to pay.
hit me at brooklyninkproject@hotmail.com
peace
Everyone has a good point. Yes, in theory, if they jacked the sample in the first place, then they’re hypocrites for acting all possessive of their stuff. But I don’t think that’s why Madlib was angry. It just boils down to copyright infirngement. If he hasn’t cleared the sample, and we’re telling the whole world what the sample is, it can put him in financial and artistic jeopardy, because he’ll have to be more cautious about what he samples in the future, which limit his creativity, and deprive us of some much needed authentic hip-hop in this world of Florida’s and Lil Wayne’s.
Also, the magician’s trick goes both ways. I listened to Eye Know by De La Soul and T.R.O.Y., then listened to all the samples they used, and it just made me appreciate the genius of Prince Paul & Pete Rock even more (I tried remaking Eye Know, and it’s very, very hard because the way he filtered the samples is incredible). And it’s not just the technical side, but the creative side as well. Like “how did he even think ‘I’ll throw this record on top of this one to make a hook”? But sometimes you realise the producer just looped 8 bars, and that makes a beat obsolete in my eyes, which is annoying, cos I can’t nod my head to it anymore.
So if we want madlib to keep making the music we like, we can’t post sample sets unless they say it’s cool. But that doesn’t stop us from researching them ourselves, so really we haven’t lost that much.
By the way, the link to “Madlib’s response and my rebuttal” doesn’t work. The site’s been moved. Is there a different link where I can still see it, or can you post it again or something please? I really want to see what he had to say. Thanks for the post