This video has been floating around the internet for about a day so I’m late. Joe Budden along with Joell Ortiz are discussing Vibe’s newest list (The Best Rapper Ever). I think its safe to say that Joey doesn’t like the list….at one point calling some inclusions (and exclusions) on the list blasphemous.
He calls out a couple of rappers who he either thinks shouldn’t be on the list (Juvenile, Project Pat, Grandmaster Melle Mel), the ranking of some artist (ODB, Will Smith), and the exclusion of his Slaugtherhouse brothers. Joe carried this conversation onto Twitter (Mousebudden) and had some interesting comments to say about Method Man and ODB.
You can get in on the discussion by printing out the brackets, making your picks, and mailing them to Vibe before May 23, 2009 at a chance to win an engraved iPod Touch. The first round of the “tournament” begins on May 18, 2009.
Joey makes some interesting points….whatchu think?
{ 61 comments… read them below or add one }
I’m not a big Joe Budden fan but after watching this I’d never support anything he makes or does anymore. Not because he diss Meth but because he said “Cowboy, I don’t even know who that is.” Pause. Epic fail. Really homey, you don’t know Cowboy. Will Smith and MC Hammer is wack? really. Here is some info from wikipedia since Buddens don’t know: Coinage of the term hip hop is often credited to Keith Cowboy, a rapper with Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five.[4] Though Lovebug Starski, Keith Cowboy, and DJ Hollywood used the term when the music was still known as disco rap, it is believed that Cowboy created the term while teasing a friend who had just joined the U.S. Army, by scat singing the words “hip/hop/hip/hop” in a way that mimicked the rhythmic cadence of marching soldiers.[4] Cowboy later worked the “hip hop” cadence into a part of his stage performance, which was quickly copied by other artists; for example the opening of the song “Rapper’s Delight” by The Sugarhill Gang.[4] Former Black Spades gang member Afrika Bambaataa is credited with first using the term to describe the subculture that hip hop music belongs to, although it is also suggested that the term was originally derisively used against the new type of music.[5] The first use of the term in print was in the Village Voice[6] by Steven Hager, later author of a 1984 history of hip hop.[7] I always say i’m an old head when I post but I’m not that old. RIP Cowboy!!! WE WILL NOT FORGET YOU! HIP HOP LIVES
alright, mike, i don’t completely agree with Joe Budden, but he specifically said to forget about the “legend” aspect of each rapper on the list. he’s right, it DOES say “Best Rapper”.
I would’ve never guess Joe Budden is so sensitive. and I really wanna know what’s wrong with Prodigy…?
Hell yeah Method Man will eat u alive Joe Budden! He’s feeling himself a little too much, Padded Room was utterly horrendous, Self Titled LP was pretty dope.
oh and by the way, thanks for posting this Thomas. The video is fucking hilarious.
“You agree with that-”
“NO.”
You agree with that?”
“NO. FUCK”
hahaha that is GOOD shit
lol he was almost about to talk shit about redman than hesitated im just glad he didnt go their cuz redman would take budden to the “slaughtahouse” and beat his ass.
mike’s absolutely right
how can someone who’s “a fan of hip hop….who love’s the culture and the craft” not know who Cowboy is…that’s blasphemy right there lol
i don’t agree with the list either…but joe budden man quit cryin… some funny shit goin up against rakim haha!
ha..you guys already beat me on the whole “Cowboy” issue….weak. That list is ass cheeks though.
I’m gonna spend 5 mins filling out the bracket and 42 cent on a stamp to send it in….lord knows I need to upgrade from my iPod Nano!
I’m winning this joint……and Joey…..I’m not voting for you hahahah.
Lmao joe is my dude! method man tho… i think it would be closer than a 32-9 spread but i dont think joey better than him
I like it how Joe is bitching more than Joell is. But I feel if someone off of Slaughterhouse should by on the list it Royce he has been in the game the longest. And i couldn’t find Lupe is he on it or not. Cuz if he isn’t thats just wac.
Did anyone check Joe’s twitter page where he says Mef doesn’t write his own rhymes….what’s that about. Gotta love [II] Joey….he’s passionate about this hip hop.
I love my boy AZ but when faced against Nas? No question.
I like Joe but love the panty raider better and i think he will reply to joe, well i hope so.
How cool would that be? Budden Vs Methical
Joe makes an ass of himself everytime he records himself on video
Okay. Ya smart-dumb fucks talking about Joe does not who Cowboy is, but ya bitch asses probably went to Wikipedia before you started to type. People swear they have the knowledge of the world and quick to diss someone. The Meth like was a push but yo what has he done since the first Blackout CD? 4:21? Tical 0? Both lackuster. Check yourself.
Back on topic.
People are going to have their fuckin opinion about Joe. Okay. Whatever. But really?
Lloyd Banks is not on there. Lupe Fiasco is not on their. AZ is number 30?
MC Hammer, Will Smith and Missy Elliot are better “rappers”? Rick Ross better than Banks?
Fiasco or Budden? Fuck Juelz, Phonte of Little Brother, or Rah Digga not on there?
I am offended that Banks and Fiasco are not on there the most.
They spit and they got sales to back it up.
I am not a fan of Tony Yayo, but at least that nigga better than Bow Wow, MC Hammer, Will Smith, Project Pat and Cowboy
I don’t care if Joey thinks he is a better rapper than half those people, I’m not a huge Budden fan but he’s probably right. Even if not, so what if he’s cocky if you don’t love yourself in hip-hop than nobody will. Jay-Z & Lil Wayne’s claim is that they are better than EVERYONE on that list. Joey wasn’t dissing any those people up there, as he said those are his peers, he was dissing the complete lack of hip hop knowledge demonstrated by whoever wrote that stupid ass list. Why can’t I vote for Royce, eLZhi, Lupe Fiasco or Crooked I? How bout Fabolous, Young Jeezy, Lil Wayne and Bow Wow, one of those 4 clowns is gauranteed to make it to the 3rd round. Whereas Jay Electronica, Blu and Wale, they are gauranteed to be knocked out first round by heavyweight Eminem, and that’s even if they make past the play-in bracket.
I think shit like this needs to be thought through a lot better. I’m with Joey on this one
The think about this bracket is (and thats just the style of the bracket, nothing else), how to put Joe Budden against Rakim. He will take, like he said, a easy and quick “L”.
But there are matchups like Nelly vs. Mase or T.I vs. Big Gipp! Where a worse rapper than Joe Budden will make it to the second Round easily. I mean what kind of sense makes Freeway against Jay-Z? Freeway is one of the dopest Rappers nowadays. He can Freestyle and has a real good flow. But how can he win against a Legend like Jay-Z. Right, He can’t!!!
The official prove that they really just looking for the Matchups is that they put Rick Ross against 50 Cent. I mean wasn’t there a big Beef surrounding all other Blogs (Thanks Kev’ for not putting any attention to that BS). In my opinion that bracket is just stupid.
lol wow this funny. This nigga is not better than Meth! and why is everyone talkin about how long it’s been since every one did something? it’s the best EVER so i think that makes the list timeless even though they left out a lot of name’s. Buddens is wac and he is only doin this tryin to get attention. his bitch ass should be glad that he luckily made the damn list. he need to jus shut the hell up and play the bench on desert storm cuz Fabolous got that on lock. this nigga beggin to get on albums and shit. and im tired of niggaz using excuses about whats on the radio nowaday’s i dont agree wit some of it but music does have to evolve. so if u dont like it chances are u jus gettin too old!
Freeway can only freestyle with a beat. Not to say thats a bad thing but just pointing it out, I mean anyone remember that years back when he was on some radio station and they wanted him to freestyle acapella but he kept insisting on a beat….hmm….suspect.
meth not writing his own lyrics…i call bs on that one. Stuff like that always finds a way out man, plus you can tell a meth verse a mile away imo.
Blaze Burna has a good point about it being a “best EVER” list, but what people fail to realize is that it would be too complicated to construct that list, Too many greats. The whole Cowboy thing is funny cuz me being an avid lover/supporter of Hip-Hop since I can remember, I didnt know who he was either. “Blasphemy” ?
lol
Oh and that whole Meth vs Joe thing..I dont kno if its true about Meth but I dought it so Budden would get his ass handed to em..
Budden is a joke..He cant spit that well so he makes his living off his girlfriend ass and controversy……funny that people getting hyped over this…real hip hop heads knows that vibe is a joke and so is joey……padded room was ok at best….he not even the best in his group…..and why people still think eminem is tight…like he a hip hop golitah….he a joke also…even thoiugh i did not like the listing of emcees i felt better about arguing on this site about the top west coast artists…..at least it was credible……this is a monday morning joke to get you day started…haha
First of all, I’ll start off by saying that I think Buddens has a great point about the whole overall Vibe bracket thing: IT’S WACK!!! I know who’s dope and who’s wack and I don’t need a damn tournament-style bracket to tell me that. He also makes another good point: who the fuck gets to make these lists and what kind of credentials do they have? And some of the people on the list ARE downright blasphemous (Plies, Juvenile, Project Pat, etc.). With that being said, I also think Joe is feeling himself a little too much on this one. Out of all the wack mothafuckas on this list, he picked Method Man to go at? What the fuck? Whether Method Man should actually be a number 9 seed in this so-called bracket is definitely questionable. However, there wouldn’t even be a Joe Budden if it wasn’t for Meth doing his thing when he did it. I understand his point that he thinks he’s a better RAPPER RIGHT NOW in 2009, than Meth is. Whether or not you agree with that is debatable but the fact of the matter is that Meth is a legend and he could have picked any number of wack mothafuckas with no track record to go at before picking on Meth. I like how Joell Ortiz backed off of those comments quick and made it known that those weren’t his feelings. He knows what’s up and knows it’s not a good idea to run around dissing legends. Oh, and anybody that says Meth don’t even right his own rhymes is out their damn mind! Lay off the ego, Joey!!!
Jumpoff Joe needs to spend less time whining and more time improving his beat selection. And going at Method Man is just stupid. Tical has classic albums. Joe has…some nice mixtapes?
Tical has classic albums? More than one? Really?! His debut is the closest to a classic, but is not one, let’s take it easy. I didn’t know who Cowboy is either, haha, guess I’m not a real hip-hop head, come on, not everybody is a hip-hop historian.
I think what he meant Keezy is that he has A classic album to say the least, Joe doesn’t. Not to mention Method’s work with Wu dropped 2 great albums
and seriously… do true heads hold value in what Vibe has to say about anything hip hop?
By The Way..
At that stuff he says about people losing credibility.. in that case, no one should be writing about hip hop. In that case, joe blow on the street should be writing about hip hop because he has no biases.
There’s certain things you can’t side-step. I’d rather have people educated on the topic to discuss it. With that said, Vibe isn’t exactly the most credible outlet. We’ve seen this in the past with how they ignore the underground heavily. But I mean, if you REALLY want those credible writers you either gotta dig deep into history or go to the smaller outlets, the ones that care about putting out truth and not selling papers
I can probably continue commenting as this goes on.
He doesn’t know who Cowboy is? that’s fine.. that happens. But this is the same guy who said that some writers don’t have credibility. A rapper’s credibility in part to me depends on his knowledge of the past. Cowboy is the damn dude that invented the term hip hop budden…
Not to mention, I think he’s taking it out of Context when he says in 2008 could Melle Mel rap. That’s not the question they are asking. In 1987, could Melle Mel rap better than Royce could in 2003? I mean that’s the more likely question. Moreover, the more likely question is taken as a whole, they aren’t gonna limit people to a specific date
Vatkeezy-
I count Tical as a classic, and 4:21 was pretty damn good. Another classic with 36 Chambers, and just the quality of songs that Method Man has put out over the years far exceeds Budden
The only classic Meth was a part of was 36 Chambers, I’ll just leave it at that, and agree to disagree. I’m not defending Budden, the only shit I really bumped from him was Mood Muzik 2.
and yes joe budden.. if Method Man was standing in front of you, he would out rap you
damn Keezzzzzzz
no tical love?
Albums do not prove who is the better rapper. When you listen to albums you take into consideration creativity, concept, lyrics and production. e.g. ready to die is better than let’s say………the master by Rakim. Does that make Big the better rapper? No.
What i am trying to say is that all this talk about Meth having a classic album or not, doesn’t mean Meth is a good mc or bad mc
Keezy noooooo!!! Tical is crack fire
albums don’t, you’re right. However, if you don’t have a good discog, chances are its gonna be a blow to your “Credibility” as a rapper.
That’s always been my knock on Mos Def.. terrible discog for the most part, but a tremendous rapper when it’s been seen. But I mean, why I put Ghostface ahead of a Mos Def (for now) is heavily because of his stronger discography.
Discography certainly accounts as one of the elements of what makes a great rapper, but also, within a discog, you get to see how good an emcee is. Chances are, the beats could be bad and the rapping is great as is the case with most J Budden albums.
Co-sign discography comment by Deez. One of the criteria of whether someone is a Top 10/20 MC should be that you had atleast 1undeniable classic album “OB4CL, Illmatic, Infamous, etc.”
Forget this tanya morgan all day
I think the most efficient way of determining a best rapper ever list would call for the writer to have heard every single song by each rapper on the list. is that going to happen? probably not. so when it comes to putting together such a touchy list, it should atleast make sense. like Joe Budden said, Vibe’s list is confusing as hell, it just doesn’t make sense
Why would I take offense as to who Cowboy is if I didn’t even know who he was. your comment above was just ignorant. I have a problem with somebody thinking THEY know everything, they are a dope ass rapper and are better than everyone else and they don’t even know their history. That is an issue with people now. They think they know everything and that everyone owes them something. Do something to prove you belong. Stop being lazy and ignorant and do the knowledge. I am hip hop, hip hop is my brother, hip hop was my first love. The way he was disrespectful to someone who passed on is what makes me sad. Even sadder is all the other comments of people saying they don’t know and pretty much don’t care either. Obviously you don’t care about hip hop if you don’t respect it’s origins and turn your nose up. My comment was about Buddens since he is an artist and is supposed to be knowledgable and respectful to the craft he is in. I can understand if a lot of young bucks don’t know since maybe they haven’t been educated. I expect more from Buddens. I grew up with hip hop. I know about Trouble T Roy, I know about Scott LaRock, I heard 100 songs from different artists shouting out Cowboy because they had love and respect for him so I went and did the knowledge. I just wanted to speak on it a little bit from all the negative comments I’ve read.
Tical isn’t classic? I think most head consider that a classic. Everything is debatable. Who makes the law on what are classics and what isn’t. It seems most people here think Tical is classic. How many emcee’s/groups have more than one classic. It’s not a lot. OB4CL is classic but FOR me his albums after that were terrible. So is Raekwon top 10/20 as mentioned in above post?? Not in mine. By the way Deez you make good points. Just want to say that. To Keezy I would like to know why you don’t consider Meth’s first album a classic. What were your issues with it?
I actually think there’s some validity in calling an album a classic at least there should be. If someone calls The Big Bang classic.. that’s suspect
I can agree that Meth’s first joint is a classic. But at the same time, Joey can in 2009 outrap Meth(whatever that means). If we talkin bout a battle, I think Joey would slay Meth, but then again, people thought Nas couldn’t battle, but then came the “Ether” That being said, the List is definitely wack, Joey’s catalog doesn’t warrant him being too much higher than he is at this point in his carreer. Minus 2 or 3 cuts, his self titled album would definitely be a lot better. Bottom line is, I agree with what Joe is saying, but he knows that rappers, including himself are really sensitive, so I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of cats start comming at him over this. I know Meth would probably swing on him before he gets into a battle tho… LOL
Yo Pee Dub. After some of the freestyles i have hear from meth, i am not sure if budden would “slay” Methical. But that is just my opinion
All of ya’ll talking bout’ how not “knowing who Cowboy is hurts your credibility are bugging out. Nobody knows every single pioneer in Hip Hop history. I know my Hip Hop history but I didn’t know specifically who Cowboy was either. Obviouly I know who Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five are tho.
Anyway, Joe Budden is pretty dead on. This list/bracket by Vibe is blasphemous! The who structure of it is wack. For example: The bracket has Joe Budden against Rakim in the 1st round. Now I don’t know how familar most of you are with Joe Budden’s music but if u are one who really listens to him you know that he is nothing short of a lyrical genius as is Rakim (duh). But Rakim is a pioneer of lyricism and legend so how the hell is it even fair to put Joe Budden up against him, knowing that nobody has the balls to even compare the two (just because of who Rakim is).
Joey is right, the person(s) who created the bracket has to take a hit to their credibility. How are we having a tournament of “The Best Rapper Ever,” and have such omissions as Joell Ortiz, Lupe Fiasco, Crooked I, or Royce. But we have Bow Wow and Will Smith. Its not that Bow Wow & Will Smith r on the list. Its the fact that a “Joell Ortiz or a Cassidy” isnt.
The only thing that I don’t agree with is what he said about Method. He was wrong for that. I’m not saying Method Man is a better rapper than Joe. I’m not saying Joe Budden is a better rapper than Meth. I’m saying that like he said “if Method Man was standing right in front of his face”, and they both rapped their some of their best rhymes back & forth, we may have a little better idea of who is better. Both of them are extremely gifted emcees.
Eddie, it doesn’t take a genius to see that if plies is on the list of best rappers ever and a lot of others aren’t… the list is horribly suspect.
But every rapper thinks they are above the world at times… And as I said, who would joe budden think is a credible writer.. someone who thought Padded Room was a 5 Mic album? Probably.
Great discussion on this topic.
I’ve had just about enough of you Thomasian
The fact that they have Plies, Bow Wow, and Young Jeezy on a Best Rapper Ever list is some bullshit. They do have some great artists on that list but having Plies, MC Hammer and Bow Wow fucking discredits this bullshit.
Budden is a dope MC but needs to cool down and be easy, Method Man>>>Joe Budden
he thinks hes better than mef? he could have called out anyone else but method man and with such confidence?
i agree with about 90% of what budden is saying. like he said “take away the legend aspect” and most of these people aren’t great RAPPERS. i don’t see how eminem gets a one seed and nas gets a 3 and jay gets a 2. the list itself is wack. budden does need to slow down. although he is straight he ain’t that straight.
Taut, I believe Eminem won last years. Hence why he gets a bye and such.
I disgree with you taut.
Sean, Eminem goes up against the winner of the play-in bracket consisting of the likes of Blu, Drake, Wale, Kid Cudi, Charles Hamilton, and 3 others. That to me means he’s the overall number 1 seed! I don’t care that he won Best Rapper Alive last year. I can’t believe that, over 2pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, and Rakim? My whole beef with this list is that Lupe Fiasco is not even on it, but Bow Wow is, Plies, Nelly, MC Hammer, Will Smith, Project Pat, LMFAO GTFOH!!
Well, I mean, I think people downplay how good of a rapper Will Smith was back when he first came out. I think he was a great rapper. But with that aside…
I mean, guys, you read this site.. you know our bracket would be much different
AND NO WE AREN’T GONNA DO ONE ….. (yet.. or any time soon that i know of)
This has been interesting. Mef addressed this situation on a couple of radio shows today…google them.
Quick recap….Mef gives Joe props for being a battle rappers (and saying he is not), but said he is a thorough dude. He said him not writing his own rhymes is crazy and has a story behind what Joe “might” be talking about. He calls Joe crazy who has been drugged out for a long time (even though Joe has said he has been clean for 13 years).
He challenged Joe to get on a track with him and let the people decide who spit it the best. Mef said Joe has been wanting to get on a track with him for the longest (along with everyone else).
I like Joe Budden. Probably the only person that visits this site who: 1. brought the album (Padded Room) and 2. Still listen to it. However, Tical 2000: Judgement Day > Padded Room. 4:21: The Day After > Joe Budden (self-titled album). Mef’s “New Wu” verse > anything Joe has spit recently.
About the Vibe list (haven’t mailed it in yet). The list is jacked up, but what’s interesting is when you get into the 3rd round and after you get some interesting match up (BIG vs Pun), (Jay vs Black Thought), (Redman vs Em–3td or 4th round), etc.
Anyhoo…..the list should be taken for what it is.
Melle Mel has a response to Joey on the nets.
Test
Thomas:
Haha i just saw that
“joe budden is the ass crack of hip hop” lol
joey was straight butt hurt dam!