Exclusive Interview with Torae & Marco Polo

Transcribed by: Sean Deez & eA

Note from Deez: The Interview is already quite long as it is, so I won’t bother with any type of introduction. Marco Polo and Torae have been put on display on this site plenty of times. You know their names, you know what they do. Enough talking, let’s get to…more talking… with this interview by the homie, Addi “Mindbender” Stewart.

Before the “official” part of the interview, Torae, Marco, and Addi laugh about and discuss the comments regarding the review of Double Barrel here on the site. Without transcribing each and every word, Torae was cool about the criticizing done towards him and the album. He reinstates his line from “Click,” “I read every blog and every article printed.” At the end of the day, as Torae said, “everyone has an opinion.”

Now, on to the interview…

Addi: Alright, let’s talk about ya’ll. How long was ya’ll in the making, how’d ya’ll meet?

MP: We originally met in New York at Masta Ace’s Dojo Studios. Ace had me and Torae do a skit for the EMC album (The Show), which is his group project with Punch[line], Words[worth], and Strick[lin]. That’s when we first met. I was familiar with Tor from his DJ Premier records with Skyzoo (“Get It Done,” “Click”). So, we stayed in touch and he came in through the studio to record some tracks for my new Port Authority Mixtape, which came out right before my first album, Port Authority. We definitely caught a good vibe in the studio working on tracks. I ended up taking him on tour with me across Canada with Ace, he showed the love back and took me to Europe with Ace. From the friendship, we kept working on tracks and we were like-minded in terms of what we grew up listening to and we both love that east coast boom bap, hardcore sh*t. We were like “Fuc* it,” let’s make an album like that: me on the beats, and you on the rhymes. I came up with the name Double Barrel and we just started working. Two years later, here we are.

Addi: For the heads who don’t know who you are, drop some jewels on your history

Torae: Torae, Brooklyn NY, I’ve been on the scene for a while. For those who might be familiar with me, are probably familiar with the records I did with Sky and Preem. Obviously worked with Marco, 9th Wonder, Khrysis, Clark Kent, Buckwild, Pete Rock. Yeah, I got some work out there. I definitely understand that the music moves real fast right now. A song goes out and before you know it, it’s 8 more songs and you might miss something. But if you hear anything you like something from the kid, then just do a Google search, there might be a lotta sh*t up there that you might not be up on. That’s the beautiful thing about music, when you discover it in your life, no matter when, it’ll be dope and stand the test of time. Same with this Double Barrel album, this is an album that when you hear it in five year, if you liked it five years ago, when you hear it, it’s gonna hit you the same way. And when you do hear it for the first time, it’ll put you in that automatic space and mood that’ll get you saying “that’s that shit.” It’ll probably be one of your favourites, in my humble opinion.

Addi: Marco, you’re a special case, especially since the fact that you are here, man. You are one of Canada’s own. Now that you’re established, you have the connections, the ideas for projects and such, what have you seen, what have you learned since the beginning when you started the drive towards this dream?

MP: Honestly, the one thing I learned is to continue to do what I’ve been doing. I think that’s one thing that separates me from other producers. Marco Polo isn’t concerned with getting a cheque, as opposed to leaving a mark and leave something behind that people remember as authentic music. I’ll stress out when I have to pay my bills and other things, but it’ll never be selling my soul and trying to keep up with the other things going on. I’m not gonna put 808s in my beats because I get a cheque. I might put 808s in my beats because creatively I feel like it fits, but it’ll never be from the pressures of my finances or trying to follow people. Whatever I do, it’ll be natural. I notice with my favourite producers or even artists, the moment they stray away from the sh*t I love them for, is when the demise starts happening in their careers. I don’t wanna go down like those dudes, no matter what financial stresses as an artist I’m going through. So, that’s what I’ve learned, I’m just gonna keep doing what I’m doing, and step it up each time and work with different artist that respect what I do, because that’s when good collaborations happen; when you work with people that f*ck with you do, and they respect what you do. The collaborations are just that much better. Take Double Barrel for example, these are people who wanted to be in the studio, they aren’t just like “where’s the western union for the verse? Okay, I got it, here’s the verse” and they haven’t even met the person. That’s not making music, that’s straight business. It gets back to me and Torae making music just for the love of it because we make a little money off of it for a slight living, but for the amount of time that we put into this, we are on minimum wage sometimes! It was always for the love, but now, with the recession, it’s evidently for the love!

Addi: Word, okay. Talk to me about the beginning of your career. Your first show, your first concert, your first idol.

Torae: I came up in the 80’s and got into hip hop in the 90’s. Back in NY, we had public access for Video Music Box, for all the kids who didn’t have cable. And Ralph McDaniels would just play Buckshot, Blackmoon, Smiff-n-Wessun, Kool G Rap & Polo. Just like hearing them saying all that incredible stuff on the radio, this beautiful noise, it just inspired me. I was always into music, and then when I heard hip hop, it sound like I sound, talk like I talk, walk like I walk. It made me want to be a part of it and figure out what my lane was and what I can add on to it. It wasn’t about cars, chains, and chicks. It was just about being dope and getting respect from your peers. I still aspire for those things. I can’t even tell you my first show. It was probably Afrika House in Brooklyn, and I probably had to sell tickets in order to rock. And I probably couldn’t sell all of the tickets, so I probably put up all of the money. But it was all for the love. Now we sell tickets and get the money back. But, it was a labour of love. I love creating music, I love rocking, I love when the music touches people [recalls various occasions of when people hit him up and let him know how his music helped them out]. That’s what I’m about. I’m here with Black Moon and Smif-n-Wessun, on the same label [Duck Down], being co-signed by classic artists. I feel like I’m doing the right things for the right reasons, and people are taking notice. That’s what it’s all about in my book

Addi: No doubt, man. Marco, you get compared a lot, some good and some bad. Do you ever get tired of the constant Premier comparison? Does it annoy you? Is it an honour?

MP: I don’t think I could ever get tired of being compared to the greatest producer, in my opinion, of all time. That doesn’t bug me at all. It depends though, if people are saying “you’re biting Preemo,” that I’m not cool with. But, if they are saying, “your music gives me the same vibe as that Preemo sh*t,” thank you very much! He’s straight up one of my biggest influences. There’s not that many cats like him in the underground making that style of production anymore because it’s not the most popular type of hip hop. It’s not the type that’s selling millions of records. It’s a shame because that’s that sh*t. I come from the boom bap era, all the classics. It’s so funny to me how it’s being pushed as being “underground” now and “independent.” It’s not any of that sh*t, it’s just hip hop. But, yeah, it doesn’t bother me to be compared to any great of its an honour and humbling.

Addi: Word up, man. Torae, albums or emcees that influences you, your rapper heroes. Who or what are they? No Duck Down Cats!!

Torae: Man, as corny as it is, it’s really a lot of cats that you see me working with. Me and my friends used to argue everyday about who was better, Gangstarr or EPMD. So, like, hearing Primo, Guru, Erick & Parrish. But yeah, I’d say my number one though, as wack as it is because he’s the homie, is Masta Ace. He’s the dude from Brooklyn whose rhyme scheme, patterns, and concepts were just incredible. One of my favourite emcees of all time, that’s my guy. Buckshot is like music on top of music to me. He’s like an instrument. His cadence, his flow, and the words he chooses to use. It’s almost like he doesn’t even write, it sounds so creative and melodic. Hearing Buckshot, especially over the early Beatminerz production, it was just like another sax or drum or another instrument over those beats. Those are two of my all time favourites. Especially them and myself being from Brooklyn, it makes that crazy. I could go on and on, you know, Rakim, Krs One…

MP: Slick Rick, son!

Torae: Of course! He’s probably my all time favourite! Even though he’s a legend, he still gets overlooked as one of the dopest to ever do it. I love Slick Rick. I still wanna record with Slick Rick, I still listen to all of his albums. Even all of the stuff that was just put together. But yeah, dope emcees in general, Pharoahe…

Addi: Have you heard Slick Rick on the Mos Def album [The Ecstatic]? Holy sh*t!

Torae: I didn’t buy it yet, and I wanna try and buy it before we go to LA. I can download it, of course, but I wanna get out and buy it. Mos Def too, he’s another. Me and Marco argue all the time about where Mos should be. I think Mos is still one of my favourites!

MP: I’m gonna go on record and say that I used to work with Mos and Kweli a lot, at the studio, not in a production and mc way, but in an engineering and running the studio space. I came up with Ayatollah, he gave me my name. That’s a producer that has produced some big hits for Mos Def (“Ms. Fat Booty,” “Know That”) and I still listen to Black on Both Sides and still consider it a classic. Since then, I would love to see him work Ayatollah again and all of those producers and go in that direction. But that’s Mos, he’s always changing, so eclectic. You can’t control an artist like that! He’s gonna do what he does But fan wise, I’d love to see him connect with those original producers. And I think a Marco Polo beat would be very fitting!

[everyone laughs]

But yeah, when you brought this up, I would just love to see him connect with the original. I know you gotta move on and evolve. I’m not trying to be stubborn. But, some of the original formulas and producers, as a fan, like “I think you and Ayatollah had some incredible chemistry.” Mos couldn’t even get mad at that!

Addi: Sticking with formulas in production, what’s your process, especially with the ever-changing technology? How do you do what you do? What don’t you do?

MP: I don’t think it’s about the technology. The programs don’t make the beats for you; it’s just the platform to make beats on. But, for me personally, my process is pretty simple: I wake up, I make a cup of coffee, I light a cigarette, and I listen to some good music. It could be ESG, S.O.S Band, Stevie Wonder, Beach Boys, Gangstarr, and I catch a good vibe. It’ll point my mind somewhere and I’ll start looking for drums and breaks. I do things half-assed backwards though. I usually start with drums, which is completely backwards because once you start with drums and chop them up and make a pattern, you are now limited to that and have to find samples that fit in that. Most people do it vice versa, which is probably the correct way (finding samples and putting drums on top of it). I just feel like the method I choose allows me to set the energy and the tempo right off the bat. So, while it might be harder to find loops and chops to fit into that, I got the tempo and the vibe I want. So if I’m gonna program some hard, dirty, abrasive big snare drums, it’s already there, now we just gotta find the chops to fit in there. I work incredibly slow, I analyze the sh*t outta every move I make, and sometimes I work for twelve hours on one beat and shut the machine off and say “that sh*t was wack.” My roommates will say “Save that sh*t! You’ve worked all day on it” and I’ll say “I don’t wanna ever hear that sh*t again.” Some people are like “Yo, I’ll pay you if I can come in and watch you make beats,” and I’m like “Honestly, I think your brain would explode if you watched me making beats. It doesn’t make any sense! You may kill yourself after.” It’s really on some mad scientist sh*t. But, however it has happened, it seems to work for me when people like a beat from time from time.

Addi: [laughs] No doubt. Back to you though, Tor, what do you wanna do next as an emcee man? Your next idea, your next direction…

Torae: “I would like to liken myself to, maybe a painter, know what I’m saying? And, sometimes pay somebody to get down on the canvas and create something that’s real bright and pretty, and put you in a…. you know what I’m saying? Like a real happy state of mind, know what I’m saying? Sometimes they might use a lot of darks and, you know, blacks and grays and put you in that state of mind. But once you go to the gallery and you look on the wall and you see all these different ideas, thoughts and creations, you say ‘Wow, this is an incredible artist,’ you know what I’m saying? And that’s kinda what I want to do with the music…every project isn’t gonna sound like Double Barrel. I’m not gonna be, you know, delivering it in such an aggressive tone. Sometimes I’m gonna puts bars on top of bars on top of bars, sometimes I’m gon’ fall back. And as a real artist, I think that that’s what you need to do – always create to evolve, and never give people what they expect, know what I’m saying? You give them something new, and don’t be scared to do that. Some people find their lane and they stay right in that box and they don’t keep going and keep evolving, and they kinda limit your creativity of which you have. I wanna, you know, like Double Barrel doesn’t sound like Daily Conversation and it’s not gonna sound like whatever my next endeavor is, you know what I’m saying? As long as you stay true to yourself and continue to create music from your heart, that’s all that matters. So, you know if the next project, I’m not sure yet. I’m starting to wrap my mind around different ideas, but, you know touring, being on the road…hearing the critics, the fans, and the supporters and everything alike is gonna give me different concepts and ideas and inspiration to draw from for the next project. You know, definitely gonna get back in the lab with Marco… I think we have incredible… ”

MP: …we’re gonna do it different though. We’re gonna get out Salvador Dali on, we’re gonna drink a bunch of Absinth, do mad cocaine for 6 months, a bunch of white noise, some pots and pans, we don’t know what’s gonna happen. Something’s gonna happen. With a certain amount of chemicals in our body [laughs].

Torae: [laughs]. But yeah man, you know, and of course just continue to build on the foundation. You know, I feel like I got a real nice launching pad, you know what I’m saying? People checking if not for me, for Marco, if not for Marco, for Duck Down, if not for Duck Down cause Preemo said so or Pete… you know what I’m saying? So whatever drew you in, it’s my job now to keep you tuned in and I think that even the people the didn’t necessarily gravitate towards this project are gonna look for the next one to see what I do, and that’s when I’m gonna shock you and hit you with something new, you know what I’m saying?

Addi: No doubt.

Torae: And just being a complete artist, you know what I’m saying? A lot of times people get caught up in the hype and all that… I wanna be a complete artist. I wanna always give you something to think about or always give you a reason to check back to next project, and like I said, when it’s all said and done and you go to my art gallery and you look at the wall, point “That guy was a f*cking genius.”

Addi: Alright, so you’re good, you’re good. Thank you, I appreciate you can share man, because when you hear my shit, you can say ‘Yo you’re a weird ass mother fucker and I hate most of those songs but your flow on that shit was dope.’ And I would love that honesty…. but I gotta ask you now man.. I mean, you really, you know.. I don’t know how many people talk to you about it, but I give a fuck about global hip-hop and you .. what you’ve done in historics. So I mean, when you think about cats in Canada, here in Toronto whatever, what they haven’t done … I know you hooked up with Eternia and you see you’re down there…

Torae: YOU HOOKED UP WITH ETERNIA? [laughs]

MP: E, that’s my homegirl! What up E! Tor, that’s just Toronto lingo, it just means “Hangin’ out.”

Torae: Eternia & MoSS, At Last coming soon [laughs].

MP: That’s how he flipped that.

Addi: Well done [laughs]. I mean, when you look back up here and I mean, cats you used to hang with that are still here, whatever, that may have not done what you’ve done or not even got down there to do anything…

MP: Sh*t, cats are making bigger moves that me. Shouts to the homie Frank Dukes, producer from Toronto. I don’t know if you’re familiar with him. He just signed a fu*king deal with G-Unit on the production side of things, know what I’m saying? Then you got cats like MoSS and Mr. Attic. They stay busy; MoSS got the project with Eternia. He signed with Works of Mart, Preemo’s first and only outside producer signed to his label. It’s funny how Toronto people are overall unaware that the moves Canadian’s are making but there’s some serious moves. Like the homie Boi-1da. 1da is producing for Drake. Songs that are getting played 13 times a day on Hot 97. Like, Canada on the low is producing incredible talent, know what I’m sayin? And whatever reason it never truly gets the attention it should be but it’s all good. We’ll just keep making moves on the low and we’re in it for the music, but, I don’t even feel like I’m alone anymore like ‘I’m holding down the torch.’ There is plenty of people on the production side of things from Canada that are killing it way beyond what I’m doing, you know? But we’re all in our own lane, know what I’m saying? Me and Boi 1da are making moves with completely different sounds, you know what I’m saying, but we respect each others moves. It’s cool to be a part of. I’m so proud to be Canadian and I try to rep that shit to the fullest and let people know that we have talent up here and we always did….

Addi: That’s an interesting point because I was talking to my homie online ’bout all this battle stuff like ‘yeah, you know, there are a lot of Canadian producers that are starting to get picked up and seen down there, but still the rappers ain’t getting heard.’ So, I mean, like, when you’re down there in the studio with M.O.P or whatever, most people when you say ‘Yo, what do you know about Canadian rap?,’ most people say Kardinal, Saukrates. There’s like four or five rappers and you [Marco] know a hundred, two hundred dudes, same with me. We know 500 cats that never get heard or noticed and have equal skills to a lot of the ones out there…

MP: Kardi, Sauks, Choclair, came up in an era where independent hip-hop was one of the most exciting form of hip-hop to me, you know, that’s the year of vinyl… you could do a 12-inch and sell 20,000 copies which is more than most album sell today, and the promo and the reach was out there so people were familiar. That avenue is gone now, now you have the internet. My whole focus for me in making moves is to hustle my music outside of the GTA, and that’s my advice, that’s a big reason why I think a lot of MCs in Toronto aren’t getting heard because they’re kinda focused on being the King of Toronto, and that’s dope, but how bout being the king of everything? You know what I’m saying? Well not everything, but how bout really focusing on other markets? And I feel like a lot of cats get caught up in getting that shine in their city, and that’s great, but you gotta look a little big bigger and beyond that, know what I’m saying? If that means taking trips down to NY or LA or London in the UK to hustle your music, do that shit, that’s what I did. I moved to NY and did some bullshit jobs in the studio: making coffee, getting phone calls, which eventually lead me to meeting people and hustling my shit and you know, it’s a lot of sacrifice but you know, if you really wanna do this you gotta think outside of Toronto. That’s definitely some advice I’d pass on to all MCs trying to do their thing.

Addi: Thank you, that’s it. It’s an honour you guys, I look forward to the show tonight.

Marco & Torae: Thank you Mindbender.

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